Monday, June 22, 2009

Arizona Concealed Carry Law

The latest and greatest new gun law or bill to come out lately is the bill to allow all Arizonians the right to carry a weapon concealed. It is more a repeal of a law then a new law all together, as our right to bear arms is in both our National Constitution and our State Constitution. So this Bill, if voted in, will become a law saying that the law that was passed before it is no longer valid and therefore we as Arizona residents can again use the rights guaranteed by not one but two Constitutions. CONFUSED? Yeah, I believe that is the intent.

My first thoughts when hearing about this bill was that I did not agree with it. Why? Because I thought that allowing any idiot to carry concealed would put both him and others in danger. There is a certain stigma that one feels when they open carry and an even bigger one when someone carries concealed. The CCW class takes a commitment and offers some sort of training and proficiency testing. This is small, but it is something.

I got passed my first thought quickly and moved to my second thought. IT IS OUR RIGHT. Done, finished, over. So, I started thinking about my initial feelings and how could those concerns be diminished without infringing on someone’s rights.

Education was my answer or rather School. Have gun safety become a mandatory class just as Drivers Education was mandatory in my school. I believe we have a right to demand that all people who own or use a firearm know what the hell they are doing. This can only be done one or two ways without infringing on some ones rights.

The first way is what I stated above, education by the schools. The second is a law that said people had to have a license to own a gun, but it was like a driver’s license. Basically, you had to take a safety class AND show safety proficiency with a firearm. This would have to be signed off by a licensed professional instructor. You would get a license and that license would allow you to buy what ever and do what ever. The license would be checked but would not be documented with any firearms purchase.

Now, the second idea does infringe a bit into people privacy as I am opposed to anyone knowing that you might own a gun in any way. That is why I prefer the first suggestion. It would mean that ALL Americans knew how to handle a gun safely. Whether they actually follow what they have been taught is another matter, but again we can see that a lot of people don’t drive within the rules and they have all been tested that they know the rules.

I hope this spurs debate and I look forward to hearing everyone’s opinions on this subject. Law enforcement opinions extremely welcome, as the news portrays the Police as being the biggest opponents of the bill.


Shawn said...

I see the strengths in your ideas, but I can't see it ever becoming real with the climate of the education system and their ongoing fear of in-school shootings. I could see it being realized as an additional license like a driver's license, but with the contraction of gun rights I think that it will never be realized.

The ultimate negative outlook is that, just like uninsured drivers and drivers without licences, the murderers and waste-of-genetic-material's out there don't need a license to obtain a gun or how to use it.

James said...

Exactly shawn! Thats why every LAW ABIDING person should carry a gun.

The way the media is now, you know they would dive into a story where the person who is a CCW carrying person shot or killed a dirtbag and it was not justified. Steve, I challenge you to find a story where this is the case. I havent seen any, ever. I have seen good people victimized and when I asked them where their gun was, they say they were scared to carry one.

Iknow we have had this argument here before. The case in Flagstaff being the most debated. Check out the east valley tribune and you will find where state legislators are now getting involved in order to change this vedict.

And Steve, your right. Any infringement on the 2nd amendment is wrong. Every single person I have ever arrested for CCW was a prohibited possessor. Either they were a convicted felon, an "undocumented worker", or had just committed some other crime. I don't care who carries concealed or not. If this law puts more guns into the hands of decent people and lets them defend themselves...then GOOD! The bad guys are going to carry guns regardless...DUH...there the BAD GUYS!

And by the way....its only a class 1 misdemeanor to carry a concealed weapon in this state. The same level as if you were driving on a suspended license. If this were a "real" crime, it would be a felony.

Mike said...

I agree that more law abiding citizens should carry guns, but is every law abiding citizen capable and knowledgeable enough to carry one? If every person can just throw a gun in their purse or pocket with no training at all then maybe be that defeats the purpose.....Just a thought. I take my training in anything seriously, especially firearms. I would imagine anyone that's reading this blog does as well. Personally I take it as a little bit of a slap in the face, saying "the years you have invested don't really mean much to the state". Now I’m not saying I’m against more people carrying firearms, but there has to be training! I realize that the bad guys will always have the guns, and we need to protect ourselves. But there are gunna be some key topics and procedures that are overlooked if we don't have training, otherwise the gun is almost useless in our hands and maybe we should just hand it over to the bad guys.

James let me direct this next question towards you. If this law passes and every one can carry without a permit, don’t you see a problem with the fact that it legitimizes every gang banger (that doesn’t have a criminal background) to carry a gun in their pants. No matter how little or large of a crime it is, Perhaps it takes some of the polices power away. Maybe would-be criminals can get as close to their victims as they want and never truly commit a crime until they do something violent. I understand that this could happen no matter what but just maybe it could be stopped.

I think my point is that, as much of a great thing it would be, not everyone is going to carry or even own guns. As much as it is our right to have them it is their right not to. Just like a drivers license there needs to be training. To me it’s obvious that every one isn’t capable (either mentally or physically) of carrying or even owning firearms. I wish it were different, because I agree that we would be a safer society if there were more guns present, but it’s the way it is. There are laws in place that I think have the correct process and that work……You want to carry concealed, you take a training class, you get a background check, you carry a license and a firearm. The system works and any law abiding citizen that wants to do it can feel free to.

James said...

Let me get this started by saying I HATE the driver's license analogy. I was willing to ignore it when Steve kind of eluded to it in the original post....but it apparently won't die. So here it is.....


All of these education type ideas are great and I would be all for them, however they are irrelevant. To me its very simple...."shall not be infringed" is a very simple concept.

Allright... I feel better. Sorry for the rant. OK, Mike asked me a question about a gangbanger who doesn't have a criminal record being legitamized by this new law. If he doesn't have a record then yes, he has the same rights as everyone else. I know this makes my job harder, but I refuse to be a hypocrite like most cops and say only I should be allowed to have a gun. As far as more guns on the street; I have been a cop for 8 years now. I have worked all 3 shifts during diferent days of the week. I work in the worst part of town, however my new job takes me to all parts of the valley. My wife says I am cynical because of the type of people that I come into contact with. You would think this would make me PRO gun control. Its exactly oppisite. I see good people being victimized because of the perceived idea that guns are bad things that should not be owned. I see criminals that are empowered because they KNOW THIS! I see people that are willing to let the criminal element run unchecked. The police can't handle this alone.

Maybe if people would start carrying and confronting these idiots (like when they're breaking into your ya Mike:) ) they will get the message.

I am not talking about taking the law into your own hands. I am talking about doing whats right. If you do it wrong and use force when not needed then you get treated like the criminal that you are. But as long as the criminal justice system treats criminals with kid gloves..they're gonna be out there victimizing people. Its time the people fight back.

Last point....Mike said they're are laws in place that work, like the CCW class, etc. I want you to ask people in New Orleans if they liked having they're name on a piece of paper next to they're address when the police began to knock on the door and demand they give up they're guns. This is not right wing propaganda...IT HAPPENED.

I am willing to put my life in greater danger at my job, if it meens regular people will feel more confident about carrying a weapon.