Tuesday, March 2, 2010

Drug gangs taking over U.S. public lands

Imagine you were hiking through the woods in northern Arizona. You stumble upon a group of people deep in the woods. They turn out to be growers of illegal plants and they are hostile. They take your hostage or maybe just shoot you right there on the spot. Why? because you accidentally came across their pot garden. You weren't looking for their garden but you found it...and all the trouble that comes with it.

I first heard about this a few years ago from a friend who's father is a officer up in Payson, AZ. They said that these gardens if not guarded by armed men are boobie trapped with anything from guns to small explosives. I was told if you ever come across one of these gardens just turn around the way you came and get out of the area as quickly as possible.


All that being said it brings me to the point of all this. I haven't always thought this way about drugs, in fact I have thought the exact opposite for many years, but drugs are illegal and I have no pity on anyone who every gets arrested for them. Maybe I'm just getting older and my views are changing, but drugs (even weed) aren't good for the country until they can be legalized and controlled. A lot of people say that they can drive while high on weed....bullshit. They say it doesn't effect their motivation.....bullshit. I was there for a long time, I know what it does and i have done a lot of stupid things because of it. If marijuana is legal a year from now than I will be cool with it, but until then it is illegal and can't be controlled correctly. I have heard before that some peoples local weed isn't as bad as that stuff coming from Mexico because no one gets killed because of it. Again.....bullshit. It is an illegal trade and people will get in trouble and die at all levels.

All that being said, I'm not going to turn in the people that I know that do partake in any of these activities. What they do in their own time is their business, But it is when it effects me that I have a concern. And don't think for a second that I don't think that driving or any thing of that nature isn't wrong while under the influence of any mind altering substance, just like alcohol. The only difference is that alcohol is regulated and there are systems in place to let me and the police know when someone has had to much.


C Furbs said...

Prohibition never works. Plain & simple...never has, never will. In fact, all it really does is create violent crime and an undergound trafficking network. Hell, you could provide every single American with full healthcare coverage if we were to just use a fraction of the money that is wasted prosecuting and incarcerating non-violent drug users. Think about that, biotches....it's all just a matter of priorities - where do you want to spend your money. Well, that & the fact that for-profit health insurance is just immoral!

Warthog said...

I agree that prohibition never works and that the war on drugs has been an epic failure. I do not smoke weed, but see no problems with people who do, based on the regulations Mike stated.

As for health care, well we have three different posts actively debating that now.

I say the conservatives fight this from a different front. I want to propose that everyone get a job. Manditory work, if you don't work then you are fined. The government will provide assignments. Your pay will be food stamps and a health card.

Food stamps will only be redemable at Matt's Gerneric General Store. No Fruit Loops there, just Tasty Os.

Do that LIBERALS and I will sign on to universal health care.

RamRod said...

I am so sick of this "non-violent" incarcerated drug offender bullshit. You have to be CONVICTED 3 or more times to be in prison for any of the narcotic drugs. For weed, its more like 6 times.

If you get arrested 3 times for drugs and still haven't decided that....you know what? Maybe I should stop using drugs, then you're an idiot that should go to prison.

By the way, the first arrest and conviction is expunged after you complete probation. It is against state law to put you in prison for your first drug offense.

Now with three (in reality 4) convictions, you're a pretty hard core drug user. You're probably not gainfully employed, already a drain on social services, (and therefore my pocket book), and have a lengthy criminal record in order to support your habit. I will spend the tax dollars to keep them in prison. It probably costs the same, maybe more, but at least no one gets the car stolen, house broken into....or worse.

I have another one of those great "challenges". Find one of those poor lost souls that is in prison for their unfortunate disease that is really the fault of society or a broken home or whatever BS excuse you can think of. Now run their name on the court docket page at maricopa.gov. This will give a complete arrest and conviction of anybody in maricopa county. Here's the link.


C Furbs said...

That very well may be the case in AZ, but it's definitely not the same in every state. Plus, it still doesn't account for the amount of money and time wasted in the arrest and any subsequent trial (which we, the taxpayers, generally foot the bill for). I would also bet that the majority of officers would prefer to not waste their time and effort arresting people for possession of small amounts of weed - read the statistics here:


MediumX said...

"It's time we stopped arresting adults who use marijuana responsibly," says Stroup

That is a quote from the link that you provided. Except for those states that have voted it in (and remember its still illegal in the federal governments eyes), there is no such thing as responsible marijuana use. It is illegal and that is the bottom line. These people arrested are breaking the law plain and simple. We don't get to pick and choose the laws we want to follow. This site also said that LEO's need to focus on "combating serious and violent crime, including the war on terrorism". While weed is still illegal the US is funding underground smuggling, illegal gun trade, and in my eyes that leads to terrorism.

Let me remind you that I personally think weed should be legalized. As long as it is as well regulated and taxed as alcohol, if not more controlled. But until then people are breaking laws. Also we can never have a society free of prohibition unless we legalize everything, and that's not realistic is it?

RamRod said...

I dont care about other states. I live in this one. My tax dollars go to this states prison system.

This brings us to one of the points of this blog. Personal responsibility. I am a nicotine addict. If Arizona made all tobaco illegal tomorrow, and told me I could go to prison if I was caught using...I WOULD STOP!!!

Now let me throw a big wrinkle into this whole thing. I agree with mediumX. Weed should probably be legalized, with the conditions mentioned before. I also have no problems with each state deciding for themselves the legal status of marijuana.

But guess what? It's still illegal. And the voters in this state say its a felony. If thats a problem for you, move to Kalifornia where its damn near 100 percent legal, or just a 200 dollar ticket and no jail time.

Furbs, I can tell you this. Most cops I work with will not arrest for a small amount of weed, as long as your not being an asshole. I have let A LOT of people slide. Officers have wide discretion on most crimes not invloving a victim, especially drugs. Maybe thats part of the problem. If there was a zero tolerance type of mentality maybe it would help. I don't know. And what about the prohibition thing? Are you saying all drugs should be legalized?

Just for the record....I have never smoked marijuana, ever. I do not think less of anyone that has.

C Furbs said...

Byrd - like you said, a lot of people are let off, but some aren't...it really just depends on the cop, don't you think? Also, there are some cities that have "quotas" which is another whole issue. Wouldn't you not have to worry about and take the time to arrest someone for possession, as long as they're not hurting anyone else? BTW, don't you think you should care about other states...I mean we're just one big community of states - that whole "United" thing, right?

Just for the record, I have smoke weed before, but I don't anymore. It was a personal choice I made. But, I know people that still do and I certainly would not consider them criminals. They use responsibly, have solid families, hold down their jobs, and are responsible people. So, in the essence of the word "freedom" that gets thrown around a lot, yes, I think anything that does not hurt another citizen should be legal. So, yeah, I think all drugs should be legalized. It would instantaneously eliminate 99% of crimes associated with the underground network. Basically, I think it should be treated as a health problem rather than a criminal problem. That's because it IS a health problem. Now, if someone commits a crime while under the influence of something, I still think that person should be prosecuted for the crime they committed. I also definitely agree that nobody should operate a vehicle while under the influence of any type of mind altering drug...whether it's an "illegal" drug OR a "legal" prescription med!! And it should be VERY illegal to give/sell to kids - the same as alcohol. Should a family be torn apart and/or a person be arrested, thrown in jail, and have their life ruined all for possession? Hell no! How does that help them, their family, or society at large? It just doesn't. They would be better off getting substance abuse treatment...and it would be a fraction of the cost on top of it!

Guess what? Arizona's voters did vote in favor of legalizing medical marijuana. But, the tards in charge did not respect the voter's consent. Strange how that happens, eh? Could it be because there's a huge incarceration industry that makes a shit-load of money off of this? hmmm, I wonder. Like I said before, it's just a matter of priorities. The US imprisons a greater percentage of it's population than any other country. Let that sink in real deep. Communist China, you ask? Yep, more than them! Islamo-Republic Iran? Yep, have them beat too. Is it that Americans are inherently bad? Nope, it just has to do with making money and locking up people unjustifiably.

Just because something is illegal according to the law does not mean it is justified. That's the whole point of the discussion. Ever gone 10 mph over the speed limit? Well, that's illegal, isn't it? Why is it "okay" to break/bend that law but not others? That's just an example, there are many others. It's up to us, as citizens, via proxy with our so-called "representatives" and "legislators", to make the laws that society is to adhere to. So, if a law is stupid, we should change it.

Oh, and for the record, I don't think less of anyone that has never smoked weed before! ;-p

RamRod said...

Wow. I don't even know where to start. "Quotas" not only don't exist, they are against the law.

We are the United States. That means we are a collective country made up of individual states with individual state rights. If the founders wanted a strong central government they would have created America, and abolished the state governments.

I used to believe that drug usage was not a huge problem. Until you see what happens to a family thats led by drug addicted people, you have no idea what this means. Yes, some of these families should be torn apart. I welcome anyone that wants to come out for a ride a long to do so. Every city has a program that allows citizens to do this.

I do believe that drug addiction is also a public health issue and should be treated. But you need "teeth" to enforce this. Drug treatment is mandatory for the first arrests for possession. The worst injury I have ever obtained on this job was by a person trying to destroy marijuana by eating it. My arm was stuck in his car and he drug me about 50 feet through a parking lot before I was thrown to the ground injuring my wrist. The point to this story is this. After dirtbag plead guilty, he submitted several things in order to mitigate his sentence. He actually presented 5 certificates of completeion for a marijuana rehab calss that he had taken, one for each of the times he had been arrested for weed. It was the same f'ing rehab class...5 TIMES. So, in my opinion idiots like this should go to prison for weed. Obviously treatment isn't working. Maybe prison will send a message.

As far as your incarceration data. Of course we have a higher percentage incarcerated. The countries you listed have instant executions....that cuts down on the overhead for your "incarceration industry"..lol. If thats what your suggesting for this country as well....SWEET! Sign me up.

---side note----
Dirtbag went to prison for 8 years for the assault. Guess what he got for his 6th marijuana conviction? .....Probation, and mandatory drug treament classes......but I'm sure this time it'll work.....

C Furbs said...

That's my point...if someone commits a crime, like dragging an officer with their car, they should definitely be punished. If weed was legal, would it have even happened?

The countries I selected were just examples...we have a higher incarceration rate than ALL other countries.

The Founders wanted a balance of powers between federal and state levels. If Colorado was attacked by another country, you wouldn't just sit back and say "oh well, it didn't happen in my state." New Jersey, on the other hand, well.....not so sure I'd be too upset with that one! hehehe

I agree that if someone is a danger to the welfare of their children because of drug use, illegal or not, they should surrender their custody. On the flip side though, someone shouldn't have the same consequences if they are responsible with their recreational drug use.